Suggestion for small logo adjustments for better balance #7304
Replies: 8 comments 32 replies
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I think a more clear reasoning rather than personal preference and claims of professional look is warranted here |
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Accusations of personally targeting you are unprofessional and inappropriate, please stop They are baseless and I resent the accusations of me being unprofessional |
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Well, i wrote what this does, it's balancing the weight of the upper part with the lower part just a bit more, quantitatively. It also unsquashes the base shape so it fit's a bit more into the imagined circle the whole logo sits in. |
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It is unprofessional to jump to this conclusion without any reason, it doesn't matter that you made the comment in vague terms, you presented the image that I was responding to you based not in neutral criticism but in personal feelings. This pains a bad image of me, so you claiming that I am detrimental to your image when you do this is frankly absurd. I have not attacked your professionalism, I have questioned it since it is unprofessional to behave as you do. Again, saying "I'm beginning to think that X" is just plausible deniability about direct accusations. I'll expect an apology for your unprofessional attitude, your insulting behaviour, and your attempt to paint me in negative and unprofessional terms. I do not accept attempts to slander my professionalism. Other than that I won't engage any further with you. I would have given my feedback, but you wouldn't let me. |
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The same can be said about your entry comment, it's presenting the image that the entry post is personal preference presented as claims of professionality, which as you know implies being deceptive. In my unprofessional personality, i don't like this being implied about me, yes. As i remembered our last discussion where it was a back and forth of negatively connotated misunderstanding which i had to stop replying to as i found it was not being productive anymore, i wanted to be clear that you're not just continuing that sentiment here, which was the basis for my assumption and the following question. |
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from a professional perspective I have to say: I really like the cog-gears a lot more in the new proposal, I think they have a much clearer silhouette while staying true to the original. I think all other changes are detremental tho, as they make it more generic in my opinion. I like the Godot Logo having a character quite a lot and I would only change it for something that keeps that. |
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I'm against the proposed changes to the logo. In my opinion, the "unwilling derpiness" gives the logo a bit of personality. It makes it look like a mascot for the engine - whereas removing that "unwilling derpiness" makes it look like it was made solely as a logo. And personally, I would rather have it look a little silly than be strictly professional. |
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That does make sense. I based my assumption on the changes with 4.0 and the beginning of the godot foundation and the official sentiment in communication, in that the whole endeavour has become a little more curageous about adressing larger professional studios, which tend to assign a little more value to the presentability of their tech stack. But i see the value in the derpiness-charm for its current community that i guess learned to like it for not copying the hollow marketability of other engines. |
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While I think your changes look good, one issue with subtle changes to a logo is making sure that all third-party usages are up-to-date. If you look around, you may still find a few resources using the Godot 2.x logo, despite the logo having changed to its current design in January 2018. This will be even more of an issue with a change that is unnoticeable to the viewer in anything else than a side-by-side comparison. As a result, it may be better to stick with a technically "worse" logo but making sure that third-party usages are more consistent in the process. We do have a press kit on the website, but not everyone will be checking it regularly after putting a Godot logo on a website, video thumbnail or project splash screen. |
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Yes, that's very reasonable, i can see that this is too small of a change with not enough requirements to warrant all the following discrepancies. |
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What if we give it cat ears to make it UwU? I guarantee that would make people to use the new logo. |
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I want to just add my 2c, the logo is bad. You can call it "opinion", but I am clearly not the only one if there have been many discussions (promptly shut down) that share the same concern. Opinion still matters. Even if it is the "incorrect" way to judge a tool, people will still be turned away if something looks outright unappealing or unprofessional. Now, Godot may be on the verge of becoming much more popular than before. I think a more modern logo design would be ideal if the leadership would simply entertain the discussion, instead of shutting down any suggestion in favor of the current iteration that has a very dated, amateur, look to it. I am sure there are lots of very talented designers who would jump at the opportunity to re-imagine the branding for this project. |
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I share these concerns, but i also understand that they shouldn't change the logo at some random point as it's integral to the public representation through association. I think they just missed that point with 4.0 which was publicly touted as the point of intentional incompatibility with focus on big improvements which could have been the point to also reevaluate the logo beside other things, but it was obvious that there was/is not enough manpower in the core team that controls most if not all aspects of change in the engine to keep focus and work on all those aspects of the engine at the same time as even some of the core features were postponed to 4.1 etc. I found myself thinking about proposing Godot to be used at my company in the past aswell; it's hard to sell at this point though and that is not just based on professional looks, shiny things sell better, yes, but prioritizing core and features is a good decision as those can be argued for when looking past the representational side. Maybe they will be able to reevaluate even a slight adjustment to all the CI/CD at some point in the future. |
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I think the adjusted version looks better. But I personally love the current one because it's cute and non-professional, just like the Linux Tux. I see "amateurish" and "childish" as a compliment. |
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I think people should stop comparing Godot to the Linux logo. That logo was created in 1996, amid the .com boom, at a time where tech was much more of a "hobby" than it is today. It has grown into an iconic image, born at a time when aesthetics were much different. I could guarantee you that Linux wouldn't have a logo like that if the project only just started (besides, lots of distros have their own, modern, logos). I am all for a mascot, but a mascot is not a logo. Rust the programing language has a cute one: The issue that some people have brought up, is that the Godot logo isn't a logo you want to proudly display in marketing materials, websites, etc. This in turn will limit the exposure of the engine (once this initial hype dies down), and in turn could result in the loss of would-be contributors. I'll be quite honest, I a not sure I would even want to display the Godot logo in a personal portfolio. It looks like a high-school project created in MS Paint to put it bluntly. ... all of that aside, I did notice that there would be a heavy lift to update all the documentation, style guides, etc. It honestly confuses me that such a logo even has a "style guide", that time would have been better spent brainstorming something fresh, IMO. |
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These are based on the idea that using a professional/modern looking logo is better. Yet you cite these arguments in order to support this point. I think that's a circular argument and not helpful to this discussion.
The same applies to this one. However, this argument is not exactly true either. Developers are given the option to disable/customize boot splash in project settings. But many, at least the people I know, choose to keep it proudly or derivative base on the game's theme.
This is supported as said above. |
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First off, I want to say thank you for engaging in this discussion. Second of all, I can't say I really follow your lines of rebuttal. Maybe you are misunderstanding my arguments? I acknowledge that my post was a bit wordy and, as a result, the core points I was making may have been lost. So here they are in bullet point form.
Maybe you know people that do proudly display the logo, and like it, but I have seen some comments otherwise (including multiple issues that were shut down). Then again, it's probably not helpful to argue anecdotes here. I will just say that this discussion exists in critique of the logo, it's not the first such discussion, and I am glad the discussion is being had. |
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I just want to voice some of my serious concerns that the features of the current icon are framed as "unprofessional" as a number of them, like the softer jawline and larger eyes, are traditionally seen as "feminine" features, branding the current one as unprofessional borders on misogyny and I find it offensive I will of course attribute it to uncritically applying norms, but it worries me that it hasn't been considered and been a part of thinking for design values in casting it as more professional |
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Larger eyes are not necessarily feminine coded - they are often, uh, child coded? Baby coded? (Not a native speaker of English) You get what I mean. And baby or child associated things are then often associated with unprofessionalism, but that's veering into offtopic area imho as it's a secondary observation "big eyes -> baby -> unprofessional" |
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I used word "dishonest" because it felt like you tried shutdown discussion of people (namely Me and Flavelius) which you personally don't like by bring in gender into it. It feels like abuse of code of conduct. Nonetheless, I extend my apologies if I made you feel. I will try to remedy the situation by properly addressing your concerns, I gave the pictures look and the eye-size stays the same, though I could see how you came to that conclusion as they jump a little bit in the gif and the head is made narrower to have even spacing with the nose and the edge and the pupils changed the focus so technically in the end they are proportionally larger. The chin was also made less broad which is actually removal of masculine trait. And finally to properly define my understanding of "professional" it has nothing to do with with gender. What I am after is to have cleaner designed logo using even proportions. namely, the cog part of the head and facial proportions. This is my last post here for very long while as I do not feel welcome and the discussion here is very emotionally charged. |
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I deal with dozen to hundreds of people on here ever single day, I don't have time to form personal vandettas with anyone, please get over yourself, I didn't even mention you until you attacked me |
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@CarpenterBlue That reads like an unwarranted personal attack. @AThousandShips mostly "deals" with people by asking basic questions such as what their hardware specs are and what they are trying to accomplish and please provide a MRP, as many bug reports turn out to be user errors. |
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@AThousandShips This response is very confusing. Nobody was bringing gender into any of this, and if they did I am certain it would be rightfully rejected. The "professionalism" of the art style is nothing to do with gender, but to do with the poor quality of of the drawing itself at a fundamental level. It looks like someone who has no idea how to draw a clean Bézier curve (or use the pen tool in Illustrator), simply grabbed basic shape tools and started drawing random shapes until they had something that resembled a "character". You only have to look at @Dark-Horizons below, to see how much more "cohesive" a logo can be when there is some thought behind the composition, contrast, etc (all design considerations). |
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Since the Godot logo includes a character, it differs from its counterparts such as Unity or Unreal Engine, and I think this is very valuable. This study is only a suggestion.
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This is precisely what I a talking about when I talk about a good "modern" logo design. It has good composition, color, contrast, etc, and really highlights where the current logo falls short in terms of production quality. |
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Okay wow, I didn't think I would ever say this, but this is unironically a Logo Redesign I could get behind. I think I'm giving this Idea my own shot, but dang does this look cool and still true to the original. |
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Still thinks the godot logo does not look serious enough. Made a few small adjustments myself. |
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While the current logo is certainly usable it still has that small notion of unwilling derpiness that's one of the small parts with potential for improvement for the aspiration of engine adoption by larger studios which are aware that the choice of engine also includes its marketability.
With 4.0 onwards godot now seems to have taken a leap towards being more professional, maturing in a way.
And this, i believe should be reflected in the logo aswell, which is one of the more prominent parts of public representation.
To address that hint of unwilling derpiness, not coming up with yet another logo redesign, i just attempted to balance out certain parts of the current design, and this is the result:
While it doesn't look like much changed, which is intended, it's in the details that are better visible this way:
This balances out the upper and lower part a bit more and un-squashes it slightly, aligning some of the invisibly extended geometry just a little better into the imagined circle it all sits in.
Adjusted.zip
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